heater temps

[Mugwump]

..I'm going to experiment a bit with the tank temps for grow out.....reducing to 78 deg's..or even ambient room(75-76) temp for the summer.....I remembering raising angels in mid 70 deg temps years ago...they grew fine, and likely more oxygen in the water helped with that.....less algae, etc....it'll also drop our electric a bunch, I'll bet..... .....

[LizStreithorst]

Everything you said is right.  It'll slow down the metabolism of everything in the tank including algae.  You will loose fast growth.  With Discus fast early growth is necessary for eventual shape and size.  I think that  this is less important with Angels.  My roots are in Discus.  I can't help telling you that if I were you I'd keep the temps as they are. 

[Mugwump]

....goods points, Liz....and yes, with discus it is important to get them bigger quickly, I believe....lots of water changes, lots of food...but as far as shape, I'm not so sure. Either a fish is genetically sound, or it's not....while a slight trade off in size for angels...I'm sure that they will develop just fine. I'll raise the fry at temps of 80-82 degs....then grow them out from there at the slightly cooler temps...I'm aware of breeders that raise them at even higher temps because they can market them quicker...that increased temp can have an effect too....shorter life and a questionable quicker development than nature had planned for them....even South American waters aren't that warm all the time...could the haste to market have influenced the rearing standards of years gone by......now it is the norm?

[LizStreithorst]

....goods points, Liz....and yes, with discus it is important to get them bigger quickly, I believe....lots of water changes, lots of food...but as far as shape, I'm not so sure. Either a fish is genetically sound, or it's not....while a slight trade off in size for angels...I'm sure that they will develop just fine. I'll raise the fry at temps of 80-82 degs....then grow them out from there at the slightly cooler temps...I'm aware of breeders that raise them at even higher temps because they can market them quicker...that increased temp can have an effect too....shorter life and a questionable quicker development than nature had planned for them....even South American waters aren't that warm all the time...could the haste to market have influenced the rearing standards of years gone by......now it is the norm?

I only know what I know from breeding Discus.  They were my first love.  Believe me Mug, Discus' shape as adults depends on fast growth.  With Discus if you don't follow their rules you won't produce anything worthy of selling.    82 degrees will work for the fry.. 

:-[Look at me, telling you what to do :  Don't I think I know sumptin'

[Mugwump]

....goods points, Liz....and yes, with discus it is important to get them bigger quickly, I believe....lots of water changes, lots of food...but as far as shape, I'm not so sure. Either a fish is genetically sound, or it's not....while a slight trade off in size for angels...I'm sure that they will develop just fine. I'll raise the fry at temps of 80-82 degs....then grow them out from there at the slightly cooler temps...I'm aware of breeders that raise them at even higher temps because they can market them quicker...that increased temp can have an effect too....shorter life and a questionable quicker development than nature had planned for them....even South American waters aren't that warm all the time...could the haste to market have influenced the rearing standards of years gone by......now it is the norm?

I only know what I know from breeding Discus.  They were my first love.  Believe me Mug, Discus' shape as adults depends on fast growth.  With Discus if you don't follow their rules you won't produce anything worthy of selling.    82 degrees will work for the fry.. 

:-[Look at me, telling you what to do :  Don't I think I know sumptin'

I figure Angels/Discus can be kept at lower temps when they each reach a certain size....Angels at about nickel+...Discus at silver dollar size....higher temps are needed for breeding most say, but I've had angels spawn with temps in the mid-upper 70's.....I do prefer the higher temp for breeding as fry/wigglers,etc..need the quicker hatch/swim and the 'up and at em'....the do need to get off the spawn surface as soon as possible to avoid bacteria issues, heck even good raiser's move their fry several times...... I'm wondering if the same philosophy was used years ago...and it just evolved into full time higher temps for both...

[EdKaz]

 Now Im gonna toss a wrench into this temperature thing....


Mugs....remember I mentioned something about temps and sex determination of fish on your last visit?


Im still trying to find the actual scientific papers I was talking about, but ran across This article in Tropical Fish Magazine here

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/aquarium-science-male-or-female-gender-determination-in-fish.htm

IN PART it says:

"Thermal manipulation may be the simplest method for gender control in fish. Although only limited research has been conducted in this area, results seem to show that the technique works best with juvenile fish, and that lower tem?per?a?tures result in females and higher tem?pera?tures result in males. Actual sex determination is triggered by thermal con?trol of certain enzymes."

Altering Temps is a tool that has been used (successfully it seems) predominantly by FOOD fish farmers.

Are we unknowingly also altering  "natural" male to female ratios?

[Mugwump]

Now Im gonna toss a wrench into this temperature thing....


Mugs....remember I mentioned something about temps and sex determination of fish on your last visit?


Im still trying to find the actual scientific papers I was talking about, but ran across This article in Tropical Fish Magazine here

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/aquarium-science-male-or-female-gender-determination-in-fish.htm

IN PART it says:

"Thermal manipulation may be the simplest method for gender control in fish. Although only limited research has been conducted in this area, results seem to show that the technique works best with juvenile fish, and that lower tem?per?a?tures result in females and higher tem?pera?tures result in males. Actual sex determination is triggered by thermal con?trol of certain enzymes."

Altering Temps is a tool that has been used (successfully it seems) predominantly by FOOD fish farmers.

Are we unknowingly also altering  "natural" male to female ratios?

Yep, I remember that....as I said tho...the fry would be raised in the std higher temps, just grown out in the 'tad bit' cooler temps...........moderate temps we'd get a 'RuPaul'.??....LOL